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==Wiki Structure Proposal==
==Style Guide?==
I ([[User:Mikepeat|Mike]]) have just modifed the sidebar (the panel on the left of every page) to add "sections".  (If any Sysop is not happy with this then it can be undone by editing the page [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]], or by just reverting my changes to it.)  I have used the sections as currently laid out on the main page, but I would like to propose a significant restructuring of those sections.  I will take no action until there has been reasonable discussion of it here and a consensus reached however.
At the suggestion of [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] (what is that all about anyway, Matt? <g>) - see [[Talk:Web_Service_Basics]] - I have been changing the colour I am using to emphasise stuff - in this case (for now anyway) changing <span style="color:blue;">blue</span> to <span style="color:midnightblue;">midnightblue</span> to avoid confusion with hypertext links (I'm not sure that is enough - I think I've just made that text look like visited links).


=== Overall structure (from Mike)===
However it would have saved me this effort if I'd had a guideline on what colours etc. to use from the start.  I think we need to evolve some kind of consensus "Style Guide" which would help us all use a nice, clear, consistent style for various things. It would be bound to be an evolving document, as we are unlikely to think of everything on day one and will have to be flexible and inclusive rather than prescriptive, but the sooner we start laying it down, the less time will be wasted later fixing stuff up that doesn't match or looks ugly.  (''I did experiment with using a template - [[Template:Colorise]] - but couldn't get what I wanted to work: the amount of time I can afford to devote to learning the WikiMedia Template [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_programming_language DSL] is strictly limited!'' <g>) [[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 11:03, 22 November 2007 (CET)
I would propose something like the following overall structure:
:I should have said ''pr<u>o</u>scriptive'' above - it would indeed be ''pr<u>e</u>scriptive'', by intent! [[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 14:54, 22 November 2007 (CET)
 
:Something like the Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Manual of Style] is always a good place to start.  Another place to look for examples are in some of the programming manuals on Wikibooks.  Here's one of the pages in the C++ manual for instance. [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/C%2B%2B_Programming/Variables] [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] 00:20, 23 November 2007 (CET)
* <big>'''Main Page'''</big> (Brief Product Overview)
** Product Detail
** '''Windows'''
*** CodeJock
*** OLE/COM/ActiveX
*** Reporting
** '''Web'''
*** AJAX
*** JavaScript
** '''Character Mode'''
*** DOS/Console Mode
*** Unix/Linux
** '''Web Services'''
*** SOA
** '''Databases'''
*** Embedded
*** MS SQL Server
*** Oracle
*** IBM DB/2
*** Pervasive
*** MySQL
*** ODBC


(All comments and abuse will be gratefully received! [[Image:Smile-tpvgames.gif|20px]])


--[[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 02:46, 21 November 2007 (CET)


::I agree, the current structure on the main page isn't clear enough at the moment. [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] 05:37, 21 November 2007 (CET)


::: Marco here... I agree too. I'd like to add some gotcha's about moving from DataFlex tables to DB2, accessed from DF32 on Linux and VDF on Win32.
= Portals =




== Discussing cookbooks ==
On the main pages, in the top section where it says "Welcome to the VDFWiki" I added on the right a list of categories, which I'm implementing as portals.  The ones I stuck in there (Dataflex, VDF, Web Apps, DD's, Class Reference, Tutorials, Dataflex Community and Development Tools) pretty much just came off the top of my head when I did that bit.  Having a weekend to think about it, I think it's a pretty good structure, and seems to cover pretty much all the bases I can think of.  Provided there's no objections, I'm going to implement each of these are portals, and then change the current Sections are on the sidebar to point to these portals.


::That structure looks reasonable. My original idea with the "cookbooks" was to put a list of howto-do-stuffs in there. E.g a list of recipes in them - and have the "other" page contain the description. E.g "Windows" contains the description and "Windows cookbook" contains the recipes. I've found that the early contributions have been about "howto do stuff" (e.g something that should go in the cookbook). I can see now , that there should be no distinction between e.g "Windows" and "Windows cookbook" - they should be the same page. --[[User:Jka|Jka]] 09:38, 21 November 2007 (CET)
As part of this Portal conversion, I may also be editing any pages that currently resemble portals (like the current [[Visual DataFlex]] page) and making something more like a reference page. In that example the Visual Dataflex page will become more of a ''What Is'' type page. The ultimate plan to be that all pages will either be a reference type page, or some kind of tutorial, while anything that contains lists of articles gets shifted to ''Portal:'' pages. [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] 12:29, 9 December 2007 (CET)


:::On the "''cookbooks''" issue... perhaps using "Categories" might be a help.  This is not a subject I understand well enough (yet!), but it seems to me that it might add a multi-dimentional element to how articles are arranged and accessed, so that they can be come at from more than one direction (don't know how yet - research needed!). I think the original idea had merit - that some articles will be of a "howto" nature while others will be more descriptive, others discursive and still others umm... complaining (whining? - "''why don't DAW do more with the Linux product?''" <g>).  In a big Wiki like Wikipedia, searching is usually the only way to start, but with our rather less ambitious subject matter, good organisation might lead people quickly to what they need (even if they didn't know they needed it and didn't know it was there).  --[[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 11:12, 21 November 2007 (CET)
:How are the new portal pages supposed to work together with the "sections" in the navigation? I think the two should be integrated somehow. It would be great if we could keep sections/portals in such a narrow scope that one guy could keep track of it all (check the "section owners in [[VdfWiki:about]] ).--[[User:Jka|Jka]] 14:30, 9 December 2007 (CET)
:: I agree, and already have plans for that. From the fisrt paragraph "I'm going to implement each of these are portals, and then change the current Sections are on the sidebar to point to these portals" [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] 22:16, 9 December 2007 (CET)


::Yes . The need for having a "cookbook" can be adressed by having a category for all the different recipees. I think we should proceed in this direction . I removed the cookbook links from the frontpage and the navigation. --[[User:Jka|Jka]] 20:12, 21 November 2007 (CET)


==Style Guide?==
At the suggestion of [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] (what is that all about anyway, Matt? <g>) - see [[Talk:Web_Service_Basics]] - I have been changing the colour I am using to emphasise stuff - in this case (for now anyway) changing <span style="color:blue;">blue</span> to <span style="color:midnightblue;">midnightblue</span> to avoid confusion with hypertext links (I'm not sure that is enough - I think I've just made that text look like visited links).
However it would have saved me this effort if I'd had a guideline on what colours etc. to use from the start.  I think we need to evolve some kind of consensus "Style Guide" which would help us all use a nice, clear, consistent style for various things. It would be bound to be an evolving document, as we are unlikely to think of everything on day one and will have to be flexible and inclusive rather than prescriptive, but the sooner we start laying it down, the less time will be wasted later fixing stuff up that doesn't match or looks ugly.  (''I did experiment with using a template - [[Template:Colorise]] - but couldn't get what I wanted to work: the amount of time I can afford to devote to learning the WikiMedia Template [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_programming_language DSL] is strictly limited!'' <g>) [[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 11:03, 22 November 2007 (CET)
:I should have said ''pr<u>o</u>scriptive'' above - it would indeed be ''pr<u>e</u>scriptive'', by intent! [[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 14:54, 22 November 2007 (CET)
:Something like the Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style Manual of Style] is always a good place to start.  Another place to look for examples are in some of the programming manuals on Wikibooks.  Here's one of the pages in the C++ manual for instance. [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/C%2B%2B_Programming/Variables] [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] 00:20, 23 November 2007 (CET)
= Portals =
== Data Dictionaries ==
== Data Dictionaries ==
::: I also want to add a topic on batch create/update/delete using DataDictionaries. Where would that live? Would it be a topic referenced from Web and Windows and Webservices, or should this be another section, 'Data Dictionaries'?
::: I also want to add a topic on batch create/update/delete using DataDictionaries. Where would that live? Would it be a topic referenced from Web and Windows and Webservices, or should this be another section, 'Data Dictionaries'?
Line 135: Line 99:
Something to watch for (and maybe warn against): I had occasion last night to move an article ([[Add Workspace Parameter]]) by [[User:Peter Brooks|Peter Brooks]] which he had put on the [[:Category:How To]] page; I moved it off onto its own page, but it is an easy mistake to make: just go to a Category and start editing. --[[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 11:01, 5 December 2007 (CET)
Something to watch for (and maybe warn against): I had occasion last night to move an article ([[Add Workspace Parameter]]) by [[User:Peter Brooks|Peter Brooks]] which he had put on the [[:Category:How To]] page; I moved it off onto its own page, but it is an easy mistake to make: just go to a Category and start editing. --[[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 11:01, 5 December 2007 (CET)


== Categories & Portals ==


On the main pages, in the top section where it says "Welcome to the VDFWiki" I added on the right a list of categories, which I'm implementing as portals.  The ones I stuck in there (Dataflex, VDF, Web Apps, DD's, Class Reference, Tutorials, Dataflex Community and Development Tools) pretty much just came off the top of my head when I did that bit. Having a weekend to think about it, I think it's a pretty good structure, and seems to cover pretty much all the bases I can think of.  Provided there's no objections, I'm going to implement each of these are portals, and then change the current Sections are on the sidebar to point to these portals.
= Historical =
==Wiki Structure Proposal==
I ([[User:Mikepeat|Mike]]) have just modifed the sidebar (the panel on the left of every page) to add "sections".  (If any Sysop is not happy with this then it can be undone by editing the page [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]], or by just reverting my changes to it.)  I have used the sections as currently laid out on the main page, but I would like to propose a significant restructuring of those sections.  I will take no action until there has been reasonable discussion of it here and a consensus reached however.
 
=== Overall structure (from Mike)===
I would propose something like the following overall structure:
 
* <big>'''Main Page'''</big> (Brief Product Overview)
** Product Detail
** '''Windows'''
*** CodeJock
*** OLE/COM/ActiveX
*** Reporting
** '''Web'''
*** AJAX
*** JavaScript
** '''Character Mode'''
*** DOS/Console Mode
*** Unix/Linux
** '''Web Services'''
*** SOA
** '''Databases'''
*** Embedded
*** MS SQL Server
*** Oracle
*** IBM DB/2
*** Pervasive
*** MySQL
*** ODBC
 
(All comments and abuse will be gratefully received! [[Image:Smile-tpvgames.gif|20px]])
 
--[[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 02:46, 21 November 2007 (CET)
 
::I agree, the current structure on the main page isn't clear enough at the moment. [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] 05:37, 21 November 2007 (CET)
 
::: Marco here... I agree too. I'd like to add some gotcha's about moving from DataFlex tables to DB2, accessed from DF32 on Linux and VDF on Win32.
 
 
== Discussing cookbooks ==
 
::That structure looks reasonable. My original idea with the "cookbooks" was to put a list of howto-do-stuffs in there. E.g a list of recipes in them - and have the "other" page contain the description. E.g "Windows" contains the description and "Windows cookbook" contains the recipes. I've found that the early contributions have been about "howto do stuff" (e.g something that should go in the cookbook). I can see now , that there should be no distinction between e.g "Windows" and "Windows cookbook" - they should be the same page. --[[User:Jka|Jka]] 09:38, 21 November 2007 (CET)


As part of this Portal conversion, I may also be editing any pages that currently resemble portals (like the current [[Visual DataFlex]] page) and making something more like a reference page. In that example the Visual Dataflex page will become more of a ''What Is'' type page.  The ultimate plan to be that all pages will either be a reference type page, or some kind of tutorial, while anything that contains lists of articles gets shifted to ''Portal:'' pages. [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] 12:29, 9 December 2007 (CET)
:::On the "''cookbooks''" issue... perhaps using "Categories" might be a help.  This is not a subject I understand well enough (yet!), but it seems to me that it might add a multi-dimentional element to how articles are arranged and accessed, so that they can be come at from more than one direction (don't know how yet - research needed!). I think the original idea had merit - that some articles will be of a "howto" nature while others will be more descriptive, others discursive and still others umm... complaining (whining? - "''why don't DAW do more with the Linux product?''" <g>).  In a big Wiki like Wikipedia, searching is usually the only way to start, but with our rather less ambitious subject matter, good organisation might lead people quickly to what they need (even if they didn't know they needed it and didn't know it was there). --[[User:Mikepeat|Mike]] 11:12, 21 November 2007 (CET)


:How are the new portal pages supposed to work together with the "sections" in the navigation? I think the two should be integrated somehow. It would be great if we could keep sections/portals in such a narrow scope that one guy could keep track of it all (check the "section owners in [[VdfWiki:about]] ).--[[User:Jka|Jka]] 14:30, 9 December 2007 (CET)
::Yes . The need for having a "cookbook" can be adressed by having a category for all the different recipees. I think we should proceed in this direction . I removed the cookbook links from the frontpage and the navigation. --[[User:Jka|Jka]] 20:12, 21 November 2007 (CET)
:: I agree, and already have plans for that.  From the fisrt paragraph "I'm going to implement each of these are portals, and then change the current Sections are on the sidebar to point to these portals" [[User:Hellboy1975|Hellboy1975]] 22:16, 9 December 2007 (CET)
Jka
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